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Do you believe in guides or angels?

Posted on Sep 29th, 2009 by Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe. Goddess2day
This is in Response to the Questions and Reflections for September 29, 2009:

39
*Squeak*    ME? 

Do I believe in guides or angels? 

Yike.

U mean the...um....unseen kind?  

Well...er...u see...I really could not be sure on this becuz I never actually felt or saw the presence of any protective invisible kind of creatures hovering around me.   I mean, if these beings do exist and they can actually protect me physically, like pull me away from some burning wreck in the nick of time, what the heck is preventing them from talking to me even in Dolphin language????  

I mean, what, goat bit them???

Okay.  Since goat never bit me, then let me start the conversation going.

ME:  (Loudly)  "Um…hello there, Unseen Guardian Angel of Mine. Psst. Tell me quick. Should I answer this question? I mean, if I tell the world that I don’t believe you exist, would you be there to rescue me from their wrath?"

Unseen Guardian Hero:  No answer 

Me:    Okay...let me try again, more softly this time to get my Guardian hero...er...angel...to...um...to converse with me............


Note to Self and the world:   Well, its not as if I don't like the idea of a guardian hero.......I mean, if this was possible, sure, I'd take one of those.........but only if there were enough for all the little children of the world.

AGA (Amy’s Guardian Angel): Still no answer.

ME again: "See? I believe I have one of those guides, guardian angel thingy, not!"

ME whining to the world:  "Do I really have a guardian angel? If so, why me? I mean, I can take care of myself so why waste a whole guardian angel on me when there are plenty of ppl who are badly in need of one?" 

ME to the World:   "Tell you what, if I do have one, I’d like to donate him to someone who is um…more needy.  The bastard is useless to me anyway." 

Note to Guardian Angel's RCMP :   "You know, there was this one time when my guardian angel let me down badly. And for some unbeknownst reason, the same disaster almost occurred again today, but my unseen guardian angel was there for me in the nick of time." 

Me:   "Grr. You think that first time I was let down, my guardian angel had taken off on vacation without informing me?" 

Note to my universe:  "Hmm  However, I think that my guardian angel is built inside of me, programmed into me by Nature…and also, there are many physical guardian angels outside of me…programmed again by Nature to watch out for me, me, me." 

Me:  "What the heck? I mean, so many people have gone astray, gone missing, gone beserk and no guardian angel has been around to rescue them and here I am, Ms. Totally Independent and I am surrounded by Guardian Angels. Ya know!!!"

ME: "I have an idea. Stay tuned while I IM my Guardian Angel. Now is the time to find out whether he or she exists or not.  (I have this weird feeling that if my guardian angel exists, he would only respond through the Internet...)"

ME: IM-ing my Guardian Angel@lost&found.com: "Dear Guardian Angel of mine. Do you exist?" 

AGA:  "Dear Amy, I don’t exist. So there."

Me all excited:  Wow.  My Guardian Angel exists!!!

Me frowning:  "Huh?  Wtf?" 

AGA: "O, shut up, Amy.  Now go away!!!  You’re the most trying, pestering charge ever." 

Me: "Listen u bastard of an angel…when have u really and truly come to my aid?" 

AGA:  "Ah.  Um.  U remembered that time when you were a kid of four and almost drowned?  Well, I believed I was the one who rescued u." 

ME:  "U bloody bag of liar. U were not even there….and the water kept on swallowing me until this huge kid reached in and pulled me out…but then again, he was the one who made me fell overboard."

AGA: (Sheepishly) "Ah. Oh. Um. But I am always here when u need me….I mean, there are so many times u could have died….and oh, yes, um, u forgot how many times I saved u from road accidents becuz u are always in another world? And—"

Me:  *scoffs*  "The credit belongs to Nature. She programmed me to be cautious…so I am always careful when stepping into marsh, bushes or swamps." 

AGA: *scoffs*  What’s so special about u? How come Nature didn’t program dare-devils like me to be more cautious.

Me: "Oh, s/he programmed all beings to be cautious but goat must have bit the daredevils in unmentionable places when Nature wasn’t looking." 

AGA: Ha Ha. "Very funny and you know what else, I QUIT.  Besides, you’re fearless when it comes to the world and since you have an answer for every situation and every question, there’s no need for me to come to your aid ever again!!!"

AGA marches off or rather he logged out of his account in a cloud of huff.

ME:  Yike. Me and my big mouth…
ME: (Twiddling my thumbs)  What to do.  What to do???   "Okay. Stay tuned. I’ll make another attempt to contact my AGA. I need to apologize. Urgently." 

ME emailing my GA:   "My darling guardian angel, I’m so sorry." 

AGA:  No answer.

ME:  "Yike. Was I just talking to a ghost? Maybe I should email God. He ought to know whether my guardian angel exists or not or whether the creature I just spoke with is some apparition of the devil." 

ME:  Hang on while I email Him, god@everywhere.com “Dear god.” I tap out. “Please write to me soon. I know you exist so that means my guardian angel must exist as well.”


ME: Let’s have a coffee while we wait for his reply. Actually scratch coffee. His reply is already here.


GOD: “Dear Virginia@nowhere.com. You’re wrong, I do not exist. Goodbye.”


ME: Omg!!!! Has God gone Devilish??? I wrinkled my nose.  "Yep, the air reeks of devilish around here all of a sudden." 


ME: I tap out, “Do you have a secretary?” and hit “SEND.”

ME: Deep breath. (I am about to doze off in my chair when a tornado burst through my door, grabs me and before I could catch my breath, I am in heaven.)

ME: Wow. This place is pure poetry. Omg, Lucifer is here too. What the??? (I stood staring at him but he pointedly ignores me.)


(A door slams somewhere nearby.  Heavy thuds approached and I spun around to face God. Yike. Shiver.   His face is as dark as a thunder cloud. He smites a fist into his third eye)

GOD: “Lucifer!” (God roars.) “Why are you not greeting our guest?”

(Lucifer is seated at a desk, busily ignoring me of course while he continues to sign a chin high stack of paper which I am certain were authorizations for his henchmen and minions to cart unsuspecting souls off to hell.)


LUCIFER: “Oh, you mean her?” (Lucifer stood up to assess me with critical eyes.) “Well, technically she’s not a guest but a prisoner.   You see, she was sending all kinds of demanding email to you so I abducted her and intend to keep her here until I figured out why no guardian angels no longer believes in her…”


ME: speechless (I subject Lucifer to my darkest glare but he continues to act as if he has never seen me in his entire eternal life. Some nerves!!! And to think of all the adventures we had together!!! Some devil!!! You think you know them until they got promoted to heaven!!!!)


GOD: (God seems slightly dazed however.) “Hmm. We have a mystery on our hands.”


I let out a long suffering sigh. Poor question of the day. Now how am I going to prove to the world that we don’t have guardian angels? I mean, these two idiots, bumbling creator slash destroyer have no clue why…um…why…a guardian angel no longer believes in me. Yike.


ME: !!! (Sweating furiously. I am in a real dilemma.) “God.” I say desperately. “If I am not your work of art, well, then, could you please look at me under your microscope and find out whether my guardian angel is hidden somewhere deep within me?” 

(I mean, its important I know this so I could let all my online readers know so they may have the courage to go out on limbs to save the world and 'sides this would also save God a lot of hassle.   I mean, if people could save the world from itself, God's life would be even breezier. And people need to know they have guardian angels watching out for their every fall or they won’t take risks!!! The bloody scaredy cats.)


GOD: (pulls up a chair. )  “Now, Missy.” He said as if I hadn’t spoken. “Who created you? Why are you so totally different from all of mankind?”


ME: I couldn’t hold back my smile. Well, I am flattered. In fact, my head is about to swell as well but then I caught a snickering sound and spun around in time to see Lucifer wipes a grin off his face. Bastard!!!  And.  Yike.  His expression told me that I am indeed ‘unique’ in an ‘unflattering’ kind of way.


GOD: Why have you abandoned your guardian angel?


ME: (Sputtering) "I did no such thing. He was the one who abandoned me. But anyway, I really don’t need him…and in fact, I intend to donate him to those who needs him the most."


GOD: (Laughing) "My child, its not you who needs a guardian. Your guardian angel needs you and by making him think he’s useless, u've put him in dire danger.. Similarly people don’t need a God, I’m the one who needs them. So psst…that’s our secret…just don’t tell all your online readers on Gaia, okay?" 


ME: Wow.  And.  "Oh.  Okay.  I promise. My lips are sealed. I won’t tell a soul." 

GOD:  "Okay, my child. I think our session is over for now.  Try and be kind to your guardian angel and don't ever let him know u are the one watching over him, okay?"

ME: (smiling like sunshine)  "Okay. I promise I'll take good care of my guardian angel." 

LUCIFER, the BASTARD!!! :  "Now, Amy, go back to earth and pretend nothing happened here tonight.  What happens in heaven stays in heaven.  And oh, if the world asks you whether you have a guardian angel or believes in one, keep your mouth zipped. Okay?"

ME to Lucifer:  Pffftt.

Me (back on earth): "Duh. Of course I kept my promise to God, and will not blabber to my online readers. I mean, its my finger telling u this story, right?" 

So, there, Lucifer, so there.  pfft.


Amy Ramdass is crawling off to bed.  Good Nite, sweet dreams.   And oh, if any of you see her guardian angel, tell him to get a life, not :(  Right.  I mean, I know she mentioned the bastard is useless  and all but she neglected to tell you he's very entertaining, overly-sensitive, a cry baby and oh, he's quite handsome too :))



The above Image is the property of Amber M Hague
Access_public Access: Public 46 Comments Print views (263)  
crudebliss : Let Lord Swaminarayan Triumph
about 3 hours later
crudebliss said

Lol..
I enjoyed this conversation behna :-)

I hope you find this interesting too

The Satins Pit

Be Warned…. it's a 2 hour video of DR. Who :-)

Popcorn ?

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 12 hours later
Goddess2day said

Thank you, J, my sweetest little brother ever.  And omg, a 2 hour video…why that's longer than a movie.  lol…oh, alright, alright, I'll gladly watch it….becuz everything you find interesting, I find it too…er…um…u know what I mean. And oh, pass me the pop corn plz……….and also, this is for you……becuz I love u sweetly.

Nicole : wakingdreamer
about 14 hours later
Nicole said

oh another wild and wonderful Amy romp! we are well and truly blessed… from the deeply sleep-deprived but ecstatically happy friend you have :):)

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 14 hours later
Goddess2day said

Thank you, Nic, you wonderful, inspiring soul, you.  And I'm truly blessed to have u as a friend….and omg, not much sleep happening in your neck of the woods, eh.  Well, lol, guess what?  I am yawning away here…and all becuz last night I picked up a book and couldn't put it down.  Hugs. Love u lots….and hey………..this is for you….a special song becuz I love u so….

Nicole : wakingdreamer
1 day later
Nicole said

no, not much sleep dearest, it is starting to catch up with me and I will have to take more naps in the coming days lol. 

thanks for the sweet dear song. how grateful I am to you! I will never forget that it was at your home that Robert and I met for the first time.

big hugs and all my love

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
1 day later
Goddess2day said

Oh, Nic….you're welcome and that's such a wonderous thing u mentioned.  It will make my home smile for sure….for my home knows it is the ground for many other significant and meaningful stories and relationships……  I may have to kiss my home tonight for being so sweet and welcoming to each wonderful soul that enters it. lol.  
big hugs and all my love to you too

Centria : Full Moon
1 day later
Centria said

OH MY GOD(dess). 

(Centria stands speechless with mouth wide open and no sentences coming out. )

Amy Ramdass…well…Amy Ramdass…you know how to really turn the world upside down and rock it.  Amen.

Nicole : wakingdreamer
2 days later
Nicole said

did you give your home a big big smooch? Mwah! love ya so much!

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
2 days later
Goddess2day said

Oh my Centria, my divine Kathy…..

(Amy is speechless, mouth hanging open while a dozens sentences dance on the threshold of her tongue at the wonderful thing her sweet friend has written)

Lol, thanks darling, K.  Your writings turn my world right side up and rock it sweetly too…

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
2 days later
Goddess2day said

Oh, Nic…my sweetie pie, Mwah. And guess what, I outsmart my house…….I blew one sweet delicious kiss inside it and right now, its flying all over my house, kissing every door, every stair and every chair. lol.  hugs. u rock…and hey….I am so happy for you, may love bloom sweetly on in your world….you multi-talented, sweet, warm soul.  I so admire you.
Hugs again.

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
2 days later
Goddess2day said

Oh, Nic…my sweetie pie, Mwah. And guess what, I outsmart my house…….I blew one sweet delicious kiss inside it and right now, its flying all over my house, kissing every door, every stair and every chair. lol.  hugs. u rock…and hey….I am so happy for you, may love bloom sweetly on in your world….you multi-talented, sweet, warm soul.  I so admire you.
Hugs again.

Nicole : wakingdreamer
2 days later
Nicole said

you know I am one of your biggest fans too! well done getting your house so thoroughly kissed! :):)

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
2 days later
Goddess2day said

ah. thanks. and hey…i hope u get thoroughly kissed too by your tall, fair and handsome hero.  (impish smile)
Hugs. Love u sweetly.

starlight : StarLight Dancing
11 days later
starlight said

AMY!!!  This was terrific!  I love your mind…u rock!*

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
11 days later
Goddess2day said

Oh, how terrifict you read this, Star.  Thanks… And hey, I love your mind too…no doubts about that….its wider than our universe…..

Hugs. I love you loads.

starlight : StarLight Dancing
12 days later
starlight said

Hello sweet Amy…yes, it was marvelous…you just have a way of opening awareness…you don't write in absolutes, and that among other reasons is why I am so drawn to your work…you leave everything openended…like the universe…lol…much love to you…always, star…

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
16 days later
Goddess2day said

Oh, wow…I have just read this poem, Star.  How beautiful it rhymes….one can't stop reading it……..

I wuv u. 

Thanks. I had no idea I…I…okay….wow, did I really inspire such a great write?  Thank u.  U are truly most wonderful.

starlight : StarLight Dancing
17 days later
starlight said

would i lie to my favorite goddess?  gol…thnx for making me feel wonderful…

i wuv u 2…

andrew : ~SmAsHInG dUaLiTy~
24 days later
andrew said

i new u stole my g.a. you little devil!lol

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
24 days later
Goddess2day said

lol…….psst…guilty, Andrew, Andrew, you big devil u. 

Amy whispers urgently to her Star friend.  “Star!  Wake up!  Tell me soon, what does g.a. mean?”  

Okay, everyone, Star knows everything….last time she wrote  “p.m” meaning “private message” to me on my g.v.  and I thought she meant “premenstrual.”   Rotflmao

Nicole : wakingdreamer
25 days later
Nicole said

andrew! so good to see you…

love you lotsly, Amy! having a good weekend?

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said

Goddess, you've done it again.. another master piece.  I see you've been dipping in your stash again..  hehehe.

I see Lucifer, but not my alter ego, Vanity!?  Here's a new heroine for you..  KundaLina  : )

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

Oh, Nic, I didn't see your comment….and thanks, oh yes, I'm having a grand weekend, only so busy.  And hey, Andrew, you can have your g.a. back, the bastard's useless to me after all.  lol!

And Leez, omg, u made it to my blog. Thanks.  Sure gald to see u.  And psst, yes, been dipping into the backyard stash…don't tell da neighbors.  Omg, Kunda Lina sounds lovely.  Omg, I should team her up with my g.a….er…yikes…I mean, Andrew's g.a.  He hee. 

Well, everyone, it has been a fun gathering. I love u all and hope u all have a lovely weekend where ever you are.  Hugs and crazay smiles.

andrew : ~SmAsHInG dUaLiTy~
about 1 month later
andrew said

oh amy, the rains are setting in, bloody monsoons, i should go on a search for some good fungi!
these g. a.'s are really tough to get a handle on cause the last time we chatted i pissed her off big time and she said she was having nothing more to do with me. i swore i heard the word bitch coming out of my mouth as i saw the blonde locks of light disappear into the ether…lol

hi liza! serpents crawling up and down your spine eh? sounds a little bit mythical to me, now what would j. campbell say?

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

…and the 'brrrr' temperature has arrived in da big smoke.  Ah, what the heck, rain and monsoons are on Gaia too…so isn't it awesome, all my friends are the true gaia sunshine?   As for fungi, I think you will find some rum..er…I mean good fungi in plenty of blogs around here.  lol.    And omg, you must tell us how you managed to pissed your g.a. off.  Oh, wait, never mind…I'm sure you stepped on her toes while dancing on ether.

Lol.
What? Serpents crawling up and down Liza's spine?  Oh. gulp.  right.  Hope its not the kind with mythical wings.   Now what would j. campbell say to that?  I am off to ask him….

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said

A woman always appreciates when a long serpent crawls up and down her spine every now and then  ; )

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

We do?  gulp.  Oh, right!  I almost forgot…however, (shudder) only one type of snake is allowed to crawl up and down my spine… oh, wait…actually, two types.  Hmm…make that three….  ah, right, totally forgot there is a fourth……tell you what, just bring all the damn kundalini snakes or I'll be here all day. 

andrew : ~SmAsHInG dUaLiTy~
about 1 month later
andrew said

oh you gurlz! sounds like fun…….lmao……..

but seriously, what say you about subtle energies?
myth,myth,myth??????????

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

Andrew, Andrew, Andrew.  Are you sure you want to hear moi not so subtle take on the kundalini topic?  I did write a few poems about it….  

  Leez, u want to hear it too?  Very outrageous but I doubt you will be offended since u are used to my psychotic views by now. Lol.

So you really think its a myth, eh, Andrew?  Maybe Leez will convince you.  So let's hear it, you guys.    Come on, it may be fun.  :))

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said

subtle body, kundalini shakti…You already have it. How else can Goddess produce such a masterpiece like this.  Her ajna is so in tuned with the Infinite. 
And the bindi speaks for itself..  : )
Don't you feel the life force of Prana?  It's there.  Maybe it's a myth, maybe not… No need to convince… Don't take my word for it, best to experience it : )

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

Ah, beautiful view, Leez.   You're too sweet for words.   Thanks, I am loving it.  

Based on what the versed ones say, I do at times think my kundalini has already awakened and crawled away……..but I'm still wondering whether it was rudely awakened or whether it had a nice long nap and was ripe for awakening becuz looking back……   oh, wait a minute here.  Andrew, its your turn to speak. lol.

starlight : StarLight Dancing
about 1 month later
starlight said

i b wantin some a that snake action…gol*

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

yeah, we know, Star, you want some J. Depp snake action. gol.

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said
I'm partial myself to Robert Pattinson  my sexy smokin' smoldering vampire.  Hmn, wonder how his snake bite feels like?
 
starlight : StarLight Dancing
about 1 month later
starlight said

Hey Liza…my hot god is hotter than ur's…althou…ur's b sizzlin…my johnny came in 1st for people's sexiest man cover (hehe, he also won in 2003)…i think ur's came in 15 if i'm not mistaken…(he b bad thou, if i ever tire of john, watch out!!! gol*)

hey amy…don't be playahatin!!!  lol*

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2009-11-18/peoples-top-15-sexiest-men-alive-an-analysis/

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said

Star, you can share the young vampire with me anytime, girlfriend. 
He's just a young'un..

andrew : ~SmAsHInG dUaLiTy~
about 1 month later
andrew said

anne rice is still my fave in that genre with memnoch the devil being my fave………..

how do you know that i havn't exp. subtle energies? but, there are those that say that the awakening has to be activated by a guru, is this so? who's your guru liza? 

why a male phallic symbol to represent the goddess? perhaps your just being duped by the same old patriarchy that people like david icke talk about…sounds like your buying it though….is it possible that this is part of the god delusion that dawkins talks about? i mean, i've experienced tons of things that people would call spiritual, but i don't know, maybe i was and am deluded…………some of the kundalini stories do sound similar to psychotic episodes……..

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

well, um, u gorlz and one guy, my very own Lucifer is real hotter than your imaginary Johnny Boy, Vampire Kid and Rice Lady.   pfft. so there.  Gol.

Ah, good question, Andrew, yep, exactly, how do we kno u haven't experienced da tingling sensation of kundalini?   We do and yet we don't and yet we do. lol. 

The Kundalini serpent indeed appears to be a phallic symbol…so perhaps the kundanlini energy has something to do with sexual reproduction?  The ancients were obsessed with it, shiva (phallus) and Yoni (Shakti) everywhere.

David Icke talked about Kundalini too?  Hmm. 

I too have heard that the kundalini activation must be done by a guru becuz its a dangerous thing to try and do it yourself.    However, it could also be awakened by a trauma, the death of a loved one, a severe bout of illness, a broken heart, etc. etc.

If I never heard of Kundalini, I swear I'd called it mental depression.  It seems to me that m.d. is an inherited gene as well…and comes in many shapes and forms.  When something traumatic happens in childhood, it goes back to sleep until it occurs again in adulthood…almost as if coming of age.  And as not many may realize, depression makes one very aware, and who knows if a similar thing happened to da Buddha if he's also not a myth. 

Lol, told u my view would be psychotic so please don't take me seriously.  I am wrong.  And its all Andrew's fault for asking outrageous questions.  lol!

starlight : StarLight Dancing
about 1 month later
starlight said

Amy, I thought those were excellent observations…as usual…

for anyone who wants to Ride the Kundalini Dragon 4real…check out that link…it has some interesting pov's and actual experiences…

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

Lol, well, thanks, my equally psychotic gal pal.  That's soo crazay sweet to hear.

Awesome, thanks for the link…interesting but its such a super-long post…will have to read it while having lunch tomorrow for sure.

starlight : StarLight Dancing
about 1 month later
starlight said

it's not just one post…several Zaadsters got together…there are a few women that participated who shared some pretty awesome stuff about their experiences…Julian was always good about creating juicy symposiums…there is a wealth of material on just about everything anyone would want to know…except TSK…haha…oh well…

anyways, Liza might be interested as well since she is into Kundalini Yoga…just thought I'd give the link…I think Andrew though already knew about it…he was a regular on Julian's blog way back when Julian was blogging…*

Goddess2day   : Poet, Philosopher, Writer, Wannabe.
about 1 month later
Goddess2day said

Oh, yes, I saw all the comments too…bet the juicier stuff are in da comments.  Will definitely read all of it.  Will feed back 2morrow.

Liza : blue dragonfly
about 1 month later
Liza said

Ahhh..  i will definitely check out this link..  thanks, Star…!  I've just woken up.. it's early here and I'm missing the party train again.  Kundalini shakti is still dormant this morning.. okay time for some breath of fire!  later, everyone!

Nicole : wakingdreamer
about 1 month later
Nicole said

andrew, I used to be such an Anne Rice fan too, we shall have to chat about that over dinner at the Aquarium tonight.

andrew : ~SmAsHInG dUaLiTy~
about 1 month later
andrew said

good to see again nicole!

yeah, the symposium, i stayed out of that one intentionally because at the time i felt there was a dismissal of christianity (islam/judaism) as myth on this site, but eastern religion/philosophy; well, therein is the fact of truth. my preference is to deconstruct all of it if one is prone to that kind of cynicism.

at the very least there's a ton of conflicting data on this issue that make for murky waters indeed………so happy swimming ya'all…….

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